# Discussion with Warren Siegel

The Aether Physics Model is solid science presented using the scientific method. However, the scientific establishment seems not willing to use the scientific method for analyzing the Aether Physics Model. Below is a discussion between David Thomson and Warren Siegel, a PhD physicist professor from CNY Institute for Theoretical Physics, SUNY.

In this discussion, the reader can see the logic presented by both sides and decide for themselves who the quacks are. Prof. Siegel goes out of his way to ignore the theory and my responses, and then deflects the discussion to question my credibility, rather than the theory.

I started this discussion with Professor Siegel by asking him if I qualified as a quack, per his list of traits for quacks page. To my surprise, he gave me an opportunity to present my views. But like all other academics who seem to have sworn an oath to the Standard Model of Particle Physics, he completely ignored my views and responded as though I had never said a word about the APM. This discussion demonstrates the “objectivity” we encounter with our trained scientists nearly everywhere we go. It also provides fertile material for psychology majors.

Our complete, unedited discussion is provided below.

Hello,

I saw the quack page at:https://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~siegel/quack.html

I just have to know if I qualify or not. Could you give me the answer? Maybe you could pass this around to your colleagues for humor?

- I have developed a new foundation for physics, based upon empirical constants and all mathematically correct.
- The theory is geometrical in that it derives the geometry of quantum space-time as well as subatomic particles.
- The theory produces a mathematically correct Unified Force Theory.
- The theory mathematically demonstrates there are two distinctly different manifestations of charges in quantum structure and that all charges must be distributed (rather than single dimension as used in Classical physics).
- The theory agrees with Einstein’s General Relativity theory, except it derives the equivalent of his simplified field equation in terms of two types of charges (electrostatic and electromagnetic).
- The theory provides a new system of quantum units, demonstrating a specific quantum length and quantum frequency.
- The theory shows that at the quantum level of existence there are actually five dimensions (three length, two frequency) instead of the four dimensions (three length, one time) used by modern physics.
- The theory is based on the assumption that subatomic particles are neither particulate, nor waves, but have a unique form of existence described as “primary angular momentum”. The primary angular momentum is a circular string of mass that moves perpendicular to its circumference.
- The theory provides a quantifiable basis for relating at least certain aspects of mind (emotions) to matter via the unit of conductance.
- The theory quantifies a fluid Aether.

Also, - I have no formal education passed high school (I even had to take a GED because I didn’t have enough P.E. credits).
- I developed this theory as a result of my interpretation of a Tesla coil experiment I performed.
- Although the theory does not nullify QM, it does provide a better interpretation of quantum structure that replaces wave/particle duality theory, force particle theories, QCD, and probability functions of particle structure (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).
- We have web sites where we promote the theory and sell a book about it.

Now, my understanding of the scientific method is that a theory must be empirically based, derived from observation of physical phenomena, provide a quantifiable hypothesis, be demonstrable to prove the truth or falseness, and to be capable of modifying or validating the hypothesis. The theory below meets all these requirements, although it provides a new foundation for physics.

The theory is presented as a paper at: https://aetherwizard.com/files/NewFoundationPhysics.pdf

So I need to know. Do I qualify as a quack for creating a new system for understanding quantum structure, even though this system meets all the requirements of the scientific method?

## Response by Prof. Warren Siegel at SUNY

The concept of ether is in direct conflict with General Relativity. Modern experiments are in total agreement with GR, and thus disprove the ether theory. (Einstein died in 1955. A lot has happened since then.)

(2) Your equations of motion are nonrelativistic.

(3) The concept of a rigid sphere is incompatible with special relativity.

The rest of your theory seems to be numerology.

If you want to propose a new theory you must:

(a) Say where you agree with accepted theory: Maxwell’ equations, Einstein’s equations, QCD, Salam-Weinberg electroweak unification, etc.

(b) Say where you disagree, and what you are replacing with what: If not Einstein’s equations, then what? If you don’t know these equations, then you can’t replace them, much less disagree with them.

## David Thomson’s Reply

Hello Warren,

Thank you for your reply.

(1) The concept of ether is in direct conflict with General Relativity.

There are two distinctly different Aether theories. One is the rigid Aether proposed by Albert Michelson, the other is the fluid Aether, first proposed by Rene Descartes and generally agreed upon by Clerk Maxwell, Augustin Fresnel, Albert Einstein, Dayton Miller, Charles Lorentz, and even recently by Renaud Parentani.

Modern experiments are in total agreement with GR, and thus disprove the ether theory.

Your logic is incorrect, as not only does GR agree with a fluid Aether, the Aether Physics Model derives the simplified field equation from first principles. However, instead of presenting GR in terms of space-time curvature and mass/energy tensors, it provides the theory in terms of two distinctly different types of quantifiable and observable charges.

(2) Your equations of motion are nonrelativistic.

My equations describe quantum *structure*, as opposed to quantum *mechanics.* The Lorentz transformations do not apply to the discrete structure of existence, only to the mechanics. Naturally, my equations are not relativistic since my theory of quantum structure is discrete. Notice, also, that despite being discrete, my theory also agrees with probability theory since it describes the structure of subatomic particles in five dimensions (three length, two frequency), instead of the four dimensions (three length, one time) upon which probability theory is based.

(3) The concept of a rigid sphere is incompatible with special relativity.

The concept of a *rigid* sphere is also alien to the Aether Physics Model. The geometry of charge pertains to the solid angle relationships of the two different types of charges, not a particulate or solid object.

The rest of your theory seems to be numerology. If you want to propose a new theory you must:

(a) Say where you agree with accepted theory: Maxwell’ equations, Einstein’s equations, QCD, Salam-Weinberg electroweak unification, etc.

(b) Say where you disagree, and what you are replacing with what: If not Einstein’s equations, then what?

I’m saying that I have provided a new branch of physics not previously discovered. Whereas the bulk of QM and its associated theories attempt to describe quantum behavior, my theory attempts to describe quantum structure. My theory modifies our understanding of wave/particle duality, probability structure of subatomic particles, and force particles. These theories are attempts at describing quantum structure in four dimensions, rather than the proper understanding of five dimensional structure.

Parallel theories, such as QCD, electroweak, single dimension charge, and GR are neither proven nor disproved. My theory simply provides an alternative view of the data, based upon a few corrections in understanding the data.

Other examples of incorrect understanding: the MKS units for charge express most units as single dimension charge. However, cgs units clearly show that charge dimensions should always be distributed. Another example is the quantification of the photon in the Aether Physics Model. According to the APM the photon is a true quantum of electromagnetic radiation and is exactly equal to the angular momentum of the electron times the speed of light.

Light, itself, is equal to the photon times the frequency at which the photons are produced.

The amount of angular momentum from a light source depends on the distance between the light source and target, as well as the magnitude of the light source (how many atoms are emitting photons). When light is absorbed by a target:

the photons no longer travel at c, thus giving us what the Einstein called the photon energy packet. The APM clearly shows the photon and the energy packet are two completely different concepts with different quantities. This fact is born out in actual experiments where a high frequency light source is capable of liberating two or more electrons in a properly designed solar cell.

As for numerology, that is what happens in modern physics when the dimensions are dropped in calculus equations and normalization of the data (due to having the wrong paradigm) is performed. All my equations are Newtonian type expressions, always retaining complete information about the data. Dimensional analysis and algebra can hardly be labeled numerology.

If you don’t know these equations, then you can’t replace them, much less disagree with them.

As I said, I’m not replacing quantum mechanics. I’m replacing loose and ill-defined theories about quantum structure. I’m sure even you recognize that wave/particle duality theory cannot be the correct explanation of quantum structure, as it is presently given.

Anyways, thank you for taking the time to respond, although you didn’t directly answer my question. What I wanted to know was whether my theory fit your description of a quack theory.

Dave

## Response by Prof. Warren Siegel at SUNY

On Jun 13, 2006, at 2:27 PM, David Thomson wrote:

There are two distinctly different Aether theories. One is the rigid Aether proposed by Albert Michelson, the other is the fluid Aether, first proposed by Rene Descartes and generally agreed upon by Clerk Maxwell, Augustin Fresnel, Albert Einstein, Dayton Miller, Charles Lorentz, and even recently by Renaud Parentani.

Those are exactly the same. Both experimentally refuted, long after Maxwell died.

Your logic is incorrect, as not only does GR agree with a fluid Aether, the Aether Physics Model derives the simplified field

Wrong. The ether defines a preferred reference frame. GR demands there is none.

equation from first principles. However, instead of presenting GR in terms of space-time curvature and mass/energy tensors, it provides the theory in terms of two distinctly different types of quantifiable and observable charges.

Charges are integrals of densities, so that is a specialization, not a difference.

Tests of the equivalence principle prove there are not 2 gravitational charges, only 1 (mass).

> (2) Your equations of motion are nonrelativistic.

My equations describe quantum

structure, as opposed to quantummechanics.

Quantum mechanics has nothing to do with relativity.

The Lorentz transformations do not apply to the discrete structure of existence, only to the mechanics.

Lorentz transformations apply to everything. Again, proven by experiment.

Naturally, my equations are not relativistic since my theory of quantum structure is discrete.

There is no experimental evidence of discrete spacetime.

Notice, also, that despite being discrete, my theory also agrees with probability theory since it

Like I said, relativity has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

The concept of a

rigidsphere is also alien to the Aether Physics Model. The geometry of charge pertains to the solid angle relationships of the two different types of charges, not a particulate or solid object.

Angles are not invariant under Lorentz transformations.

I’m saying that I have provided a new branch of physics not previously discovered. Whereas the bulk of QM and its associated theories attempt to describe quantum behavior, my theory attempts to describe quantum structure.

Semantics. Give an experimental difference.

Parallel theories, such as QCD, electroweak, single dimension charge, and GR are neither proven nor disproved. My theory

Wrong. There is a great wealth of evidence proving QCD, the electroweak theory, & GR.

Other examples of incorrect understanding: the MKS units for charge express most units as single dimension charge. However, cgs units clearly show that charge dimensions should always be distributed.

There is no physics in units. It is merely convention.

Another example is the quantification of the photon in the Aether Physics Model. According to the APM the photon is a true quantum of electromagnetic radiation and is exactly equal

Quantum of what quantity?

to the angular momentum of the electron times the speed of light.

That’s h-bar c/2. It has units mass length^3/time^2.

What quantity is that supposed to measure?

What is “phtn” supposed to be? A photon is a particle. What does it mean to say a particle IS a quantity? A quantity of what?

Light, itself, is equal to the photon times the frequency at

What? Light IS photons!

The amount of angular momentum from a light source depends on the distance between the light source and target,

Wrong. Angular momentum is conserved. It doesn’t matter how far it travels.

even you recognize that wave/particle duality theory cannot be the correct explanation of quantum structure, as it is presently given.

Yet it is experimentally confirmed.

What I wanted to know was whether my theory fit your description of a quack theory.

It satisfies that description according to items 5,6,7,10,12,14,16,19 on my present page.

## David Thomson’s Reply

Hi Warren,

> There are two distinctly different Aether theories. One is the rigid Aether proposed by Albert Michelson, the other is the fluid Aether, first proposed by Rene Descartes and generally agreed upon by Clerk Maxwell, Augustin Fresnel, Albert Einstein, Dayton Miller, Charles Lorentz, and even recently by Renaud Parentani.

Those are exactly the same. Both experimentally refuted, long after Maxwell died.

Do you have a reference for the fluid Aether being refuted? I have Whittaker’s Classical and Modern Theories of the Aether. From what I have read, the fluid Aether theory was not refuted, but simply dismissed.

> Your logic is incorrect, as not only does GR agree with a fluid Aether, the Aether Physics Model derives the simplified field

Wrong. The ether defines a preferred reference frame. GR demands there is none.

This is not what my model of the Aether defines. My model defines a quantum of space-time. The sum of all Aether quanta is the Aether fabric, or fabric of visible space-time. The individual Aether quanta move independently of each other (like a fluid), hence the preferred reference frame is only within the quantum Aether unit, and not in the Aether fabric. The Aether fabric is the domain of GR, not the quantum Aether unit. This is clearly seen in the theory I present.

> equation from first principles. However, instead of presenting GR in terms of space-time curvature and mass/energy tensors, it provides the theory in terms of two distinctly different types of quantifiable and observable charges.

Charges are integrals of densities, so that is a specialization, not a difference.

In the SM, you are correct. But as my paper states in the title, I have provided A New Foundation for Physics. This is literally true. In the SM, charge is merely a mathematical curiosity with no geometrical or other physical qualities. In the APM, charge is a dimension and the two types of charges have solid angle relationships to each other and have a difference in magnitude exactly equal to the fine structure.

It is premature for you to judge the Aether Physics Model based upon Standard Model assumptions. If the APM had the same foundational assumptions as the SM, it wouldn’t be a new foundation. Charge and mass have different definitions in the APM than they do in the SM. These definitions were determined by examining characteristics of mass and charges as they appear in quantum measurement units (also a new addition to physics in the APM).

To illustrate the subtlety of what I’m trying to convey, the French language and English language both describe the same human existence. However, the French have a different set of assumptions (culture) for framing their language structure than do the English. Hence, a literal translation is not always possible between the languages. The same thing is occurring here. I have provided a different paradigm for understanding quantum structure. The paradigm is solid and has practical use in both theoretical and practical physics. In order to benefit from this theory you need to understand its foundation, which is outlined in the paper. You cannot apply the foundation from another theory in judging it.

Now the bells go off, right? Think about it. Modern physics has met many dead ends and needs many patches to keep the theory together (virtual particles, wave/particle duality, etc.). Why is that? It *must* be because certain foundational assumptions in modern physics are wrong. How can you use physics to identify which assumptions are wrong when the wrong assumptions have been incorporated into the physics?

I had to reexamine the foundations of physics with a fresh mind, use the modern and accurate physics constants as a solid ground to begin, and factor out all the information I needed by comparing various known pieces of the puzzle to each other. This is a far more scientific approach than merely making pie-in-the-sky assumptions based upon our expectations of what the quantum realm should be like.

Tests of the equivalence principle prove there are not 2 gravitational charges, only 1 (mass).

The charges are not gravitational, they are electrical. My theory agrees with your understanding, there is only one type of gravitational mass. My theory also agrees with physical observation that there are two distinctly different manifestations of charges, the electrostatic charge and the electromagnetic charge. Further, my theory demonstrates that the electromagnetic charge is exactly orthogonal to mass. Thus electromagnetic charge (carrier of the strong force) will always be exactly proportional to mass. Further, my theory quantifies the precise curvature of space-time by quantifying the quanta of space-time, Aether. My theory also demonstrates that electrostatic charge is inherent to the quantum Aether unit, not matter. Matter picks up electrostatic charge by inhabiting the Aether. However, in addition to inhabiting the Aether and picking up electrostatic charge, the angular momentum of matter also generates electromagnetic charge, which is why electromagnetic charge is orthogonal to mass. Thus, Einstein’s space-time curvature is identical to the Aether electrostatic charge and Einstein’s mass/energy is identical to the Aether electromagnetic charge.

The electrostatic force associated with space-time is balanced to the electromagnetic force associated with matter. This balance is the basis for the weak interaction.

What is the benefit of this view of GR? With this view of GR we can quantify the lift of an electrostatic lifter and scientifically engineer a system of propulsion that requires no physical thrust. This new view of GR is not without basis in cosmology, either. There has been a group of astrophysicists promoting the Electric Universe model for decades. Also, this electric view of GR provides a much more discrete understanding of plasma physics.

Notice that my theory does not nullify the gravitational view of GR, it merely provides its counterpart electrical view, which heretofore has not been known.

>> (2) Your equations of motion are nonrelativistic.

> My equations describe quantum

structure, as opposed to quantummechanics.

Quantum mechanics has nothing to do with relativity.

That is a facetious statement. You know very well that the mass/energy equivalence principle figures prominently in QM. You may be confusing the Lorentz transformations with Einstein’s SR. Einstein is not the author of the time dilation equations, Charles Lorentz is. Einstein’s unique contribution in SR turned out to be the mass/energy equivalence principle, even though he didn’t see this when he first wrote his paper in 1905.

> The Lorentz transformations do not apply to the discrete structure of existence, only to the mechanics.

Lorentz transformations apply to everything. Again, proven by experiment.

Lorentz transformations only apply to relative motions. Quantum structure is what quantum structure is. There is no relative motion within quanta. That’s what I’m showing in this theory, the discrete structure of quanta.

> Naturally, my equations are not relativistic since my theory of quantum structure is discrete.

There is no experimental evidence of discrete spacetime.

There certainly is. The existence of a quantum particle can only take place in a quantum of space-time. A single subatomic particle cannot be in more than one place or one time, nor can it be in a fraction of a place or time. If a subatomic particle is real, then the space-time it occupies must also be real.

Further, if space-time were not discrete, there would be no such thing as a reliable measurement of length or time. Also, phonons, p-holes, and frames are direct evidence of discrete space-time.

There is an abundance of evidence for discrete space-time. What is lacking is the desire to see this abundance of evidence for what it is. The reason the desire is lacking to recognize discrete space-time (Aether) is because of the preconception that Einstein proved the Aether could not exist (which, according to Einstein’s writings, is a false premise to begin with).

> Notice, also, that despite being discrete, my theory also agrees with probability theory since it

Like I said, relativity has nothing to do with quantum mechanics.

As I pointed out, it does.

> The concept of a

rigidsphere is also alien to the Aether Physics Model. The geometry of charge pertains to the solid angle relationships of the two different types of charges, not a particulate or solid object.

Angles are not invariant under Lorentz transformations.

You obviously have not read my theory and are carrying on this discussion by making many of your own assumptions of what my theory is about. The solid angles of the charges occur within a single subatomic particle, not as relative motion between two separate particles. Lorentz transformations are completely irrelevant to the charge theory I have presented.

> I’m saying that I have provided a new branch of physics not previously discovered. Whereas the bulk of QM and its associated theories attempt to describe quantum behavior, my theory attempts to describe quantum structure.

Semantics. Give an experimental difference.

It is not a semantic difference, it is an objective difference. QM is looking at the *behavior* of subatomic particles (particle accelerators, nuclear mechanics), the APM is looking at the *structure* of subatomic particles (angular momentum, two types of charges, structure with regard to the space-time it inhabits, unified forces). The experiments that led to the APM are all the experiments that have resulted in high precision physics constants.

Presently, the physics constants sit idly as “convenience constants.” They are not thought to have any use other than providing a correct solution to an equation. I have used this neglected data of physics to discover the quantum structure.

> Parallel theories, such as QCD, electroweak, single dimension charge, and GR are neither proven nor disproved. My theory

Wrong. There is a great wealth of evidence proving QCD, the electroweak theory, & GR.

You must have misread what I said. I wasn’t talking about whether the theories of QCD, electroweak, and GR had strong evidence. I said that *my* theory neither proves nor disproves these theories. My theory provides a completely different paradigm from the same evidence. Once again, it is compared to languages. The SM has found a language that suits one culture, I have found a language that suits a different culture. Both languages describe the same physical reality with practical results. In some cases, such as GR, the SM has described a gravitational view, while my theory provides its corresponding electrical view. Since my theory clearly shows the orthogonality of mass and strong charge, I can scientifically provide an electrical view of GR.

> Other examples of incorrect understanding: the MKS units for charge express most units as single dimension charge. However, cgs units clearly show that charge dimensions should always be distributed.

There is no physics in units. It is merely convention.

This is another assumption. It is also an unfortunate and ill-considered assumption. If you study my work, you’ll find that units and dimensions are actually a part of physical existence, not a man-made invention for understanding physical existence. What is man-made is the arbitrary scales of the unit systems in use, today. My physics produces a physically based system of units, based upon empirical quantum measurements and verified through the analysis of highly accurate constants.

> Another example is the quantification of the photon in the Aether Physics Model. According to the APM the photon is a true quantum of electromagnetic radiation and is exactly equal

Quantum of what quantity?

The quantum photon has the quantum quantity equal to h * c, angular momentum times the speed of light.

> to the angular momentum of the electron times the speed of light.

That’s h-bar c/2.

No, h-bar is Neils Bohr’s mistake. Max Planck defined the quantum of action as h.

It has units mass length^3/time^2. What quantity is that supposed to measure?

Properly stated, the unit of photon has the dimensions of mass times length^3 times frequency^2. Those five space-time dimensions (length^3, frequency^2) are the five space-“time” dimensions of the quantum realm. Actually, it should be called space-resonance. The quantum photon is inertia applied through the fabric of Aether.

>

What is “phtn” supposed to be? A photon is a particle.

A photon is a quantum of action (h) ejected from an atom at the speed of light (c). A photon is thus angular momentum, not a particle (which is physically undefined) and not a wave (which is also physically undefined).

What does it mean to say a particle IS a quantity? A quantity of what?

An electron or proton is a quantity of primary angular momentum. Another assumption of modern physics is that quantum particles must be smaller versions of bigger particles. Yet, a physician does not describe human organs as smaller humans. Organs have a different order of reality than does a human, yet it is an essential component of a human. Similarly, subatomic particles have a different order of reality than atoms, although they are components of atoms. I have examined the actual physical constants and determined that subatomic particles have a different order of reality than anything mentioned in modern physics. Subatomic particles are a more fundamental form of existence. And get this, primary angular momentum is a circular string of mass moving perpendicular to its circumference. There are elements to String theory here. Strings, it would appear, are made directly from dimensions, which have non-material but real existence.

Further, I can quantify the anti-neutrino in terms of primary angular momentum caught between the strong force binding of an electron and proton (neutron). Thus there is a basis for quantifying dark matter as primary angular momentum, which is not encapsulated by an Aether unit, and quantifying visible matter as primary angular momentum, which *is* encapsulated by an Aether unit. No other theory in modern physics can provide a practical model quantifying the difference between dark matter and visible matter.

> Light, itself, is equal to the photon times the frequency at

What? Light IS photons!

Exactly! Light is photon*s*, not *a* photon. You are correct! Light is exactly what I said it is, the production of photons at a given frequency. I can quantify exactly what light is, separate from its quantum component. Can you? You don’t speak of atoms as subatomic particles, or molecules as atoms, so why should you speak of light as photons? Light is a different quantifiable unit of existence from its quantum component, photons.

> The amount of angular momentum from a light source depends on the distance between the light source and target,

Wrong. Angular momentum is conserved. It doesn’t matter how far it travels.

This is what you say within a different physics model. Angular momentum of light is conserved within my model, too. It expands radially in all directions. Just because it all doesn’t go directly to the target doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. BTW, that is a problem with the model of light you presently use. How can you say that all the angular momentum from a source strikes a target? How does the photon packet know where to go?

> even you recognize that wave/particle duality theory cannot be the correct explanation of quantum structure, as it is presently given.

Yet it is experimentally confirmed.

The physical structure of the photon has not been confirmed to be both a wave and particle. In fact, nobody knows what the structure of the photon looks like in the SM. All that has been confirmed is that a wave equation will work in one situation, and a kinetic equation will work in a different situation. This in no way confirms the structure of the photon.

Besides, for an object to be its own wave is tantamount to saying there are special water molecules that makes tsunamis and other water molecules that make calm seas. Such a claim has never been verified.

> What I wanted to know was whether my theory fit your description of a quack theory.

It satisfies that description according to items 5,6,7,10,12,14,16,19 on my present page.

Thanks. That is what I wanted to know. I’m building up a record of comments that demonstrate the difficulty of scientists to understand new paradigms. It is amazing how simple this theory is, how accurate and practical it is, and yet, how difficult it is for someone established with a certain paradigm to see something new.

This is not a personal slight to you. But you fit neatly into a greater mold that is beyond your ability to control. I fully understand that most of the “new” theories you have shoved before you are a waste of your valuable time. And yet, like gold ore in sand, there are valuable insights that are needlessly missed, which can advance the survivability of the human species. We need a more refined scientific method. There needs to be a specific venue for new theories. This venue should consist of paid personnel whose sole purpose is to thoroughly examine and encourage new ideas. This would free up your time to pursue your special interests, but also nourishes the fertile minds of others who wish to contribute new ways of understanding.

Even if you did understand the theory I presented, as several PhD physicists and several others have so far, you would run against the same issues with your peers as I am running into with you.

Thank you for your time. I have taken too much of it already.

Dave

## Response by Prof. Warren Siegel at SUNY

On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:52 AM, David Thomson wrote:

Do you have a reference for the fluid Aether being refuted? I have Whittaker’s Classical and Modern Theories of the Aether.

Just look for any prediction of the ether theory that differs from relativity. Then find any reference on recent tests of relativity. Relativity so far has stood the test of all experiments.

This is not what my model of the Aether defines. My model defines a quantum of space-time. The sum of all Aether quanta is the Aether fabric, or fabric of visible space-time. The individual Aether quanta move independently of each other (like a fluid), hence the preferred reference frame is only within the quantum Aether unit, and not in the Aether fabric. The Aether fabric is the domain of GR, not the quantum Aether unit. This is clearly seen in the theory I present.

I have no idea what that means. Can you detect the ether or not? If not, it might just as well be Santa Claus.

> Charges are integrals of densities, so that is a specialization, not a difference.

In the SM, you are correct. But as my paper states in the title, I have provided A New Foundation for Physics. This is literally true. In the SM, charge is merely a mathematical curiosity with no geometrical or other physical qualities.

It has plenty of physical properties. It appears in the equations of motion of charged particles.

In the APM, charge is a dimension and the two types of charges have solid angle relationships to each other and have a difference in magnitude exactly equal to the fine structure.

Just words. You can call anything a “dimension”. But if it doesn’t appear in the definition of length, it isn’t.

It is premature for you to judge the Aether Physics Model based upon Standard Model assumptions. If the APM had the same foundational assumptions as the SM, it wouldn’t be a new foundation. Charge and mass have different definitions in the APM than they do in the SM. These definitions were determined by examining characteristics of mass and charges as they appear in quantum measurement units (also a new addition to physics in the APM).

If it doesn’t differ in its predictions, it’s irrelevant.

To illustrate the subtlety of what I’m trying to convey, the French language and English language both describe the same human existence. However, the French have a different set of assumptions (culture) for framing their language structure than do the English. Hence, a literal translation is not always possible between the languages.

French & English scientists have no such problem communicating science. Common langauges are full of meaningless & biased terms, with no experimental significance. The language of science is precise. It can be tested. Similar remarks can be made about courts of law.

The same thing is occurring here. I have provided a different paradigm for understanding quantum structure. The paradigm is solid and has practical use in both theoretical and practical physics.

Where are the equations of motion?

How can you use physics to identify which assumptions are wrong when the wrong assumptions have been incorporated into the physics?

They have been proven right by experiment. Now you can add item 2 from my quack list. New unifying theories make new predictions. Where are yours?

The charges are not gravitational, they are electrical. My theory agrees with your understanding, there is only one type of gravitational mass. My theory also agrees with physical observation that there are two distinctly different manifestations of charges, the electrostatic charge and the electromagnetic charge.

There are, in fact, more charges: The weak & strong nuclear forces couple to charges of their own.

Further, my theory demonstrates that the electromagnetic charge is exactly orthogonal to mass.

What does that mean? What “vector” are they elements of?

Thus electromagnetic charge (carrier of the strong force) will always be exactly proportional to mass.

But it isn’t. The proton doesn’t have the same mass as the electron. Mass is always positive, charge always comes in both signs.

The electrostatic force associated with space-time is balanced to the electromagnetic force associated with matter. This balance is the basis for the weak interaction.

Electromagnetic forces have infinite range (decay as a power of the distance). Weak forces have finite range (decay exponentially).

You know very well that the mass/energy equivalence principle figures prominently in QM.

I know it has nothing to do with it. E=mc^2 has no “h” in it. Schroedinger’s equation is nonrelativistic. Einstein’s original papers on special relativity had no quantum mechanics in them.

You may be confusing the Lorentz transformations with Einstein’s SR.

It’s not a confusion, it’s an identity.

Einstein is not the author of the time dilation equations, Charles Lorentz is.

Lorentz derived them from electromagnetism. At the time, they seems paradoxical, because Maxwell’s equations were invariant under them, but the dynamics of matter was thought not to be. Einstein realized they were universal, and applied to matter as well as electromagnetic fields.

Lorentz transformations only apply to relative motions.

They apply to everything. All equations of motion must be covariant under them, just as they must be rotationally covariant.

> There is no experimental evidence of discrete spacetime.

There certainly is.

Give an experiment.

The existence of a quantum particle can only take place in a quantum of space-time.

No, quantum mechanics works just fine with the continuum. Always has.

A single subatomic particle cannot be in more than one place or one time, nor can it be in a fraction of a place or time. If a subatomic particle is real, then the space-time it occupies must also be real.

Are you stating Zeno’s paradox?

Further, if space-time were not discrete, there would be no such thing as a reliable measurement of length or time.

There are plenty of reliable measurements, all derived from quantum mechanics in the continuum.

Also, phonons, p-holes, and frames are direct evidence of discrete space-time.

Phonons exist on a lattice. We can certainly measure positions between atoms.

There is an abundance of evidence for discrete space-time.

Zero.

What is lacking is the desire to see this abundance of evidence for what it is.

All physics is based on the continuum. It works fine experimentally. Therefore the assumptions are fine.

The reason the desire is lacking to recognize discrete space-time (Aether) is because of the preconception that Einstein proved the Aether could not exist (which, according to Einstein’s writings, is a false premise to begin with).

Einstein is dead. Stop using him as a scapegoat. (At least you stopped using Maxwell.) There is no desire, there is only fact. The assumption of no ether makes predictions in agreement with experiment. That’s all there is to physics.

> Angles are not invariant under Lorentz transformations.

You obviously have not read my theory and are carrying on this

I read it. There’s nothing to read. No equations of motion. Thus, no physics.

discussion by making many of your own assumptions of what my theory is about. The solid angles of the charges occur within a single subatomic particle, not as relative motion between two separate particles. Lorentz transformations are completely irrelevant to the charge theory I have presented.

Lorentz invariance is relevant to EVERYTHING. Predictions must be independent of your reference frame. That means, independent of your velocity with respect to what you’re measuring.

> Semantics. Give an experimental difference.

It is not a semantic difference, it is an objective difference. QM is looking at the

behaviorof subatomic particles (particle accelerators, nuclear mechanics), the APM is looking at thestructureof subatomic particles (angular momentum, two types of charges, structure with regard to the space-time it inhabits, unified forces). The experiments that led to the APM are all the experiments that have resulted in high precision physics constants.

Still no experimental difference…

I said that

mytheory neither proves nor disproves these theories.

And therefore is useless. If it doesn’t differ, it isn’t new. And difference is determined by experimental predictions.

>> Another example is the quantification of the photon in the Aether Physics Model. According to the APM the photon is a true quantum of electromagnetic radiation and is exactly equal

> Quantum of what quantity?

The quantum photon has the quantum quantity equal to h * c, angular momentum times the speed of light.

Which is what quantity? I could just as well say that h^7 c^39 is a quantum. A photon is a particle, not a quantity.

No, h-bar is Neils Bohr’s mistake. Max Planck defined the quantum of action as h.

No, that was Planck’s convention, because he used frequency instead of angular frequency. If you predict the spin of the electron is h, you so disagree with experiment that you might as well stop right there.

> It has units mass length^3/time^2. What quantity is that supposed to measure?

Properly stated, the unit of photon has the dimensions of mass times length^3 times frequency^2. Those five space-time dimensions (length^3, frequency^2) are the five space-“time” dimensions of the quantum realm. Actually, it should be called space-resonance. The quantum photon is inertia applied through the fabric of Aether.

And what experiment measures such a quantity? By the way, a frequency is a rate, so measured in units of inverse time.

A photon is a quantum of action (h)

No, it’s a particle. It’s spin is quantized, h-bar.

ejected from an atom at the speed of light (c). A photon is thus angular momentum,

Angular momentum is a property, not a particle. You have angular momentum, I have angular momentum. But I am not angular momentum. Photons have angular momentum, momentum, and energy, just like any object does.

Another assumption of modern physics is that quantum particles must be smaller versions of bigger particles.

Huh? Who assumed that?

Strings, it would appear, are made directly from dimensions, which have non-material but real existence.

What does “made of dimensions” mean? Are you made of length?

Further, I can quantify the anti-neutrino in terms of primary angular momentum caught between the strong force binding of an electron and proton (neutron).

Neither electrons nor neutrinos couple to the strong interactions.

>> The amount of angular momentum from a light source depends on the distance between the light source and target,

> Wrong. Angular momentum is conserved. It doesn’t matter how far it travels.

This is what you say within a different physics model.

No, that is what experiment confirms.

The physical structure of the photon has not been confirmed to be both a wave and particle.

Yes. Experiments confirm both the wave (e.g., diffraction) & particle (e.g., photoelectric effect) nature of light.

In fact, nobody knows what the structure of the photon looks like in the SM.

Of course they do. It is described quite accurately (to several parts per billion) by quantum electrodynamics. What does your theory predict for the anaomalous magnetic moment of the electron?

All that has been confirmed is that a wave equation will work in one situation, and a kinetic equation will work in a different situation. This in no way confirms the structure of the photon.

Better than that, they both work in the same situation! E.g., one can measure the diffraction of light one photon at a time. As one adds more and more photons, the distribution gradually approaches the usual wave diffraction pattern.

>> What I wanted to know was whether my theory fit your description of a quack theory.

> It satisfies that description according to items 5,6,7,10,12,14,16,19 on my present page.

Thanks. That is what I wanted to know. I’m building up a record of comments that demonstrate the difficulty of scientists to understand new paradigms.

Ha! You can now add item 21.

It is amazing how simple this theory is, how accurate and practical it is, and yet, how difficult it is for someone established with a certain paradigm to see something new.

Probably also item 22. If you really want to get somewhere, you need to prove you have a theory at all. That means:

(1) Write specific equations of motion that you can actually use to make experimental predictions.

(2) Make some experimental predictions that differ from established theory. If it is impossible o prove your theory wrong, then it is also impossible to prove it right.

## David Thomson’s Reply

Hi Warren,

> Do you have a reference for the fluid Aether being refuted? I have Whittaker’s Classical and Modern Theories of the Aether.

Just look for any prediction of the ether theory that differs from relativity. Then find any reference on recent tests of relativity. Relativity so far has stood the test of all experiments.

Why are you defending relativity theory? Did I claim SR is wrong? As I told you, my theory neither confirms nor denies other theories. My theory is a parallel theory. It is based upon a completely different paradigm, which is based upon the same empirical constants and data as other theories. Does it seem impossible to you that there could be more than one way to interpret the data?

I have no idea what that means. Can you detect the ether or not?

As I told you, yes. If you can detect phonons, p-holes, and frames, then you are directly detecting the Aether (although calling it something else).

If not, it might just as well be Santa Claus.

Why would you make a comment like that, unless you wanted to turn the discussion into a mud slinging contest? I have provided a quantified theory, based upon empirical evidence, which makes testable predictions. Is it not possible to have this discussion based upon the content of the theory, rather than on unrelated comments?

> In the SM, charge is merely a mathematical curiosity with no geometrical or other physical qualities.

It has plenty of physical properties. It appears in the equations of motion of charged particles.

Charged point particles, you mean? How can a point have geometry or any kind of physical property? Where would this property reside in a point? As I correctly stated, charge is treated in the SM as a mathematical curiosity, not an observable object. In order to be observable as a physical object, the object must have some kind of geometrical property to it. Reexamine your theories and ask yourself if they are physical models of reality, or mathematical models for discovering limited solutions to problems?

> In the APM, charge is a dimension and the two types of charges have solid angle relationships to each other and have a difference in magnitude exactly equal to the fine structure.

Just words. You can call anything a “dimension”.

Good observation, you can call anything a dimension in the SM. That is because modern physics is very sloppy with terminology. That is why I went through the trouble of clarifying the terminology in the APM. In this theory, you cannot call just anything a dimension. Dimensions are clearly defined in this theory, as they should have been in the SM, but were not.

> It is premature for you to judge the Aether Physics Model based upon Standard Model assumptions.

If it doesn’t differ in its predictions, it’s irrelevant.

It predicts things the SM does not, such as the structure of dark matter and visible matter, the geometry of visible matter and Aether, and the unification of the forces. The theory also predicts a few minor corrections to the SM, such as the Casimir equation, the neutron g-factor, and that all charge should be notated as distributed. These are all testable predictions.

> To illustrate the subtlety of what I’m trying to convey, the French language and English language both describe the same human existence. However, the French have a different set of assumptions (culture) for framing their language structure than do the English. Hence, a literal translation is not always possible between the languages.

French & English scientists have no such problem communicating science. Common langauges are full of meaningless & biased terms, with no experimental significance. The language of science is precise. It can be tested. Similar remarks can be made about courts of law.

My example did not specify the topic of science, but the topic of human existence. I was making an analogy for the purpose of conveying a subtlety, which apparently you chose to ignore. There is nothing I can do about that.

> The same thing is occurring here. I have provided a different paradigm for understanding quantum structure. The paradigm is solid and has practical use in both theoretical and practical physics.

Where are the equations of motion?

What does it matter? My theory does not claim to be QM or SR. The APM quantifies quantum structure. Motion is not a topic of quantum structure. Structure is the topic of quantum structure. Where are the QM and SR equations for quantum structure?

> How can you use physics to identify which assumptions are wrong when the wrong assumptions have been incorporated into the physics?

They have been proven right by experiment.

The physics of QM and SR are so sloppy they allow scientists to distort their own concepts. The dimensions and units are not clearly defined, and there is no precise quantification or definition of “matter” or an explanation as to how “energy” can be a separate object capable of its own motion.

When your physics are sloppy, you can prove just about anything you want. The fruits of this sloppiness shows up as patches, anomalies, and mysteries, which surround the theory.

Now you can add item 2 from my quack list. So noted. New unifying theories make new predictions. Where are yours?

Several are listed in the white paper. Did you read it?

> The charges are not gravitational, they are electrical. My theory agrees with your understanding, there is only one type of gravitational mass. My theory also agrees with physical observation that there are two distinctly different manifestations of charges, the electrostatic charge and the electromagnetic charge.

There are, in fact, more charges: The weak & strong nuclear forces couple to charges of their own.

Obviously, you haven’t read the paper. We quantify the electromagnetic charge as the strong force and the weak interaction as the proportion of the electrostatic force to the electromagnetic force.

> Further, my theory demonstrates that the electromagnetic charge is exactly orthogonal to mass.

What does that mean? What “vector” are they elements of?

They are elements of the angular momentum vector within the Aether unit. It is clearly explained in the paper.

> Thus electromagnetic charge (carrier of the strong force) will always be exactly proportional to mass.

But it isn’t. The proton doesn’t have the same mass as the electron. Mass is always positive, charge always comes in both signs.

Once again, you are judging our theory of quantum structure according to a different paradigm, which you use to explain quantum mechanics. Electrostatic charge is different from electromagnetic charge. Also, mass does not exist separate from primary angular momentum. The spin parity determines whether a subatomic particle will be normal matter or antimatter, and time direction determines whether the mass will be positive or negative. Since we exist in a primarily left spin, and entirely forward time direction, we only see mass associated with normal, positive matter.

The magnitude of the electron and proton masses is completely irrelevant to your argument. The strong charge is directly proportional to the mass, so the electron strong charge will be proportionally weaker than the proton strong charge. And you are correct that charge always comes in both signs. The strong charge has a north and south sign, which applies to the same instance of strong charge. Hence, the neutron can have net electromagnetic charge even though it has net zero electrostatic charge.

> The electrostatic force associated with space-time is balanced to the electromagnetic force associated with matter. This balance is the basis for the weak interaction.

Electromagnetic forces have infinite range (decay as a power of the distance). Weak forces have finite range (decay exponentially).

Actually, you have it backwards. The electrostatic force has infinite range, the electromagnetic (strong) force has finite range. But the same logic applies. The weak interaction is the balance between these two forces.

In your understanding of physics, you loosely define the electrostatic force as the electromagnetic force. Yet, the force law governing what you consider to be the electromagnetic force is Coulomb’s electrostatic force law. What I have done is corrected this error and labeled the Coulomb force for what it is, electrostatic force. I have further quantified the strong force as true electromagnetism and properly labeled it the electromagnetic force. I have further quantified the weak interaction as the proportion of electrostatic force to electromagnetic force. The quantification of the orthogonality between the electromagnetic charge and mass completes the unification of all the force carriers, and hence the forces.

That, btw, is another “prediction” that our theory offers and which the SM does not, the proper unification of all the forces using Newtonian type force laws for each of the forces. This is not a minor accomplishment, nor is there any rational reason for blowing it off as “numerology.” It would seem that given the importance by Einstein for unifying the forces that any quantified unified force theory should get serious consideration.

> You know very well that the mass/energy equivalence principle figures prominently in QM.

I know it has nothing to do with it. E=mc^2 has no “h” in it.

The so-called “mass defect” formula for calculating the so-called “missing mass” in nuclear binding uses the mass/energy equivalence principle to explain the structure of atoms. Don’t tell me you have never heard of the mass defect formula? One of the most often stated “successes” of E=mc^2 is said to be its usefulness for harnessing nuclear energy (which is also the most inaccurate defense of E=mc^2).

> You may be confusing the Lorentz transformations with Einstein’s SR.

It’s not a confusion, it’s an identity.

When the “identity” doesn’t give credit to its original author, it is called plagiarism. Einstein didn’t give credit to Lorentz for his equation and tried to take credit for it, himself. There is nothing unique in Einstein’s SR paper other than his application of the Lorentz transformation to point out the extremely minute effect of time dilation. As I mentioned, the equivalence of mass and energy was not mentioned until much later.

> Einstein is not the author of the time dilation equations, Charles Lorentz is.

Lorentz derived them from electromagnetism.

And specifically for the purpose of explaining the smaller than expected Aether drift measured by Michelson and Morley. It is the Aether drift that would occur in a fluid Aether, since the experiment clearly proved the Aether was not rigid.

At the time, they seems paradoxical, because Maxwell’s equations were invariant under them, but the dynamics of matter was thought not to be.

You just provided an example of the loose and sloppy use of terminology in the SM. “Dynamics of matter,” matter is neither quantified nor defined in physics. You are specifically implying the perceived dynamics of mass, not matter. The m in E=mc^2 specifically refers to mass, not matter. But you can loosely exchange the terms of mass and matter to twist the argument any direction you choose. That is how E=mc^2 is “proved” by experiment, through loose and ill-defined terminology.

Einstein realized they were universal, and applied to matter as well as electromagnetic fields.

Einstein applied the Lorentz transforms to mass, not matter. See, you did it again. Nobody has ever applied SR to matter, because matter has never been quantified nor precisely defined as a physical entity. This is where our theory departs from the SM. The fundamental definitions of physical existence are much more precise and meaningful in the APM. We attempt to leave no stone unturned and leave no room for ambiguous and sloppy physics.

I can make the same argument for your use of “electromagnetic fields.” In your system, you do not precisely define the photon, nor its relationship to light. The APM does precisely define the photon and its relationship to light. Thus, the APM can truly discuss discrete electromagnetism, whereas all you can discuss is generalized “energy packets,” which have no meaningful structure. Yet, you speak of electromagnetic fields as though they were real, object things that have motion.

> Lorentz transformations only apply to relative motions.

They apply to everything. All equations of motion must be covariant under them, just as they must be rotationally covariant.

A quantum subatomic particle has no independent motion with regard to the quantum unit of space-time it occupies. The motion you seek to quantify is motion between two independent objects. The subatomic particle we quantify exists within a quantum of space-time. There are no relativistic equations involving the subatomic particle and the Aether unit it must occupy in order to exist.

>> There is no experimental evidence of discrete spacetime.

> There certainly is.

Give an experiment.

Why did you delete the list I gave you? Any experiment that quantifies a phonon, p-hole, or frame is an experiment that provides evidence of discrete space-time. Actually, a frame is a discrete condition of Aether fabric, but the phonons and p-holes are specifically discrete units of space-time. I’m sure you have heard of phonons and p-holes?

> The existence of a quantum particle can only take place in a quantum of space-time.

No, quantum mechanics works just fine with the continuum. Always has.

Fine, but I’m not presenting quantum mechanics, nor am I using quantum mechanics to explain quantum structure. I’m using the physics constants and measured data to derive quantum structure. However, I will state that if you better understood the five-dimensional quantum Aether unit you could produce a better quantum mechanics. We have already produced a nuclear binding energy equation that predicts the right range of nuclear binding energies for ALL isotopes, not just simple deuterium. Granted, the equation needs to be fine-tuned, but even in its present state (95% to 99% accuracy) it is strong evidence in favor of the Aether Physics Model.

> A single subatomic particle cannot be in more than one place or one time, nor can it be in a fraction of a place or time. If a subatomic particle is real, then the space-time it occupies must also be real.

Are you stating Zeno’s paradox?

No, nothing of the sort.

> Further, if space-time were not discrete, there would be no such thing as a reliable measurement of length or time.

There are plenty of reliable measurements, all derived from quantum mechanics in the continuum.

One’s ability to fumble and find the right answer is by no means a measure of success. My step brother once claimed he could open a combination lock without knowing the combination. So I gave him mine and, sure enough, he turned the dial just right and opened the lock! But it was just an amazing fluke. It is also an amazing fluke that you can model the quantum realm after macro coordinate systems and come in close enough to have a practical physics. That in no way implies the Aether Physics Model is not a better system for modeling quantum structure. If you want to prove the Aether Physics Model is wrong, you will need to do more than quote the successes of quantum mechanics. You will need to find an error in the math, the wrong use of data, or a prediction that is incorrect.

> Also, phonons, p-holes, and frames are direct evidence of discrete space-time.

Phonons exist on a lattice. We can certainly measure positions between atoms.

Exactly. There is nothing there, but yet you can precisely measure that “nothing.” Sounds like the Aether to me!

> What is lacking is the desire to see this abundance of evidence for what it is.

All physics is based on the continuum. It works fine experimentally. Therefore the assumptions are fine.

This is what I was talking about when I said the flawed physics is examining itself. I can state exactly the same thing, that all the APM is based upon a quantified Aether, it works fine experimentally, therefore the assumptions are fine. The APM is based entirely on empirical data, therefore it is already experimentally proved. None of your argument has been based on an examination of the APM, and all of your argument has been defensiveness. It is as though your own ego feels threatened by the introduction of a new quantified physics paradigm and is fighting for its life. I’m simply providing a really neat alternative view of the data, which has practical use to science, and you are running in fear as though it was going to eat you.

> The reason the desire is lacking to recognize discrete space-time (Aether) is because of the preconception that Einstein proved the Aether could not exist (which, according to Einstein’s writings, is a false premise to begin with).

Einstein is dead. Stop using him as a scapegoat.

Einstein’s writings are not dead, nor are they offended by being critiqued. And it wasn’t Einstein who denied the existence of the Aether, it is people like you who pretend that Einstein denied the Aether. It is very appropriate to point this out, especially since you brought up SR as proof that the Aether does not exist.

There is no desire, there is only fact. The assumption of no ether makes predictions in agreement with experiment. That’s all there is to physics.

No, that is not all there is to physics. The assumption that there is an Aether also makes predictions in agreement with experiment, and makes even more meaningful predictions than the non-existent Aether assumption. For example, by assuming no Aether, modern physics has failed to unify the forces despite the brain power of thousands of qualified physicists over a period of 100 years and billions of dollars in research funding. I single handedly unified the forces in only three weeks of investigation on an income of \frac[g_{p}}{2} = \frac{Phi}{sin(phi)}\frac{2}{sin(Phi)} = 2(1+1/861)&

Which was my statement.

And the people who follow your religion obviously never even check your numbers (your only predictions), so what good are those people?

Obviously, people of your cult can use sloppy language and double standards to make your point, but the opposing view is not allowed the same degree of sloppiness and confusion.

You are not looking for a critical evaluation of your proposal, only for pats on the back. So why bother even talking to scientists, when you know that any one of them who seriously looks at it will only say things that you will ignore? Does it give you satisfaction to lie to people? Are you looking for disapproval so that you can claim to be a prophet?

Is this the reasoning of a scientist? The very accusations you project onto others are reflected in your own behavior and methods. BTW, a religious person looking for disapproval would be a martyr, not a prophet.

Maybe if you learned some real physics, & saw how well it applies to everyday life numerically,

Early on you accused me of being a numerologist, and now you are espousing numerology. The Aether Physics Model is discrete, not numerological. The APM represents true science, not poetic descriptions of data, as your numerology does.

you would accept it more easily, instead of denying successful theories, & pretending all experiments are wrong.

There you go, again, intentionally misrepresenting me. Methods of deception have been deeply engrained into your psyche. Intentional misrepresentation has become your primary defense against new physics paradigms. You are not capable of applying the scientific method to a theory about quantum structure, because you have already convinced yourself that quantum structure does not exist except as metaphysical concepts of wave/particle duality, force particles, and probability functions. If you could transcend your prejudice, bigotry, sloppy physics terminology, intentional misrepresentation, and your religious devotion to your own intellectual superiority, you might actually benefit from the Aether Physics Model. Not only would you learn new insights into quantum existence, but it would help you to better understand the paradigms within quantum mechanics, which *do* work.

The one most important fact of any theory is that it can be proven wrong. But your “theory” can never be proven wrong, because you declare all physical data to be wrong. And you declare all science that agrees with data to be “nonsense”. But your definition of “sense” disagrees with all data, and therefore can only be religion.

Your reasoning is highly deluded. The theory I present is founded upon the existing physical and empirically derived constants and data. When the Aether Physics Model disagrees with your interpretation of the data, it is doing just that, disagreeing with *your* interpretation. You are incapable of seeing your investment as the interpreter of the data and mistakenly believe that because the data exists, your interpretation and renormalization procedures must be correct.

As for the APM being proven wrong, it is entirely mathematical and geometrical in structure. All you need to do to prove the theory wrong is show that math is wrong, or that I used the wrong data to derive the theory. I have witnessed the weakness in your math skills already, but you probably have a Mathematics department at your University. You might try asking a mathematician to look at the theory and see if the math is right or wrong. A mathematician will also be able to help you through the geometry. If you have a Philosophy department, you might also take the theory to them to see if the logic of the theory is correct or not.

I can see it is difficult for you to understand the difference between quantum structure and quantum mechanics. Perhaps if you have an English Language department, they may be able to assist you in this regard.

You are the kind of person who welshes on bets, because you deny that facts prove you wrong. When your beliefs disagree with proven theories, you say your belief is misunderstood, and say, “look @ my numbers”. Then when your numbers are also proven to disagree with data, you deny all data. So, you are left with nothing. Only a cry that everything but your religion is “nonsense”. And the world will continue to go around, satisfying the equations of motion that modern science understands, but you deny.

Don’t you find it disconcerting that your own numbers didn’t agree with measured values? Your “861” is way off the mark. But it is okay for you to provide an approximation based upon wild guessing, right? It’s just not okay for me to provide an approximation due to first principles. Did I mention “hypocrisy?”

You know, this is making great material for the world to see. You are doing us a great favor by offering your “scientific” rebuttal to the theory. It is one thing for me to have this kind of discussion with physicist “wannabes” and people who have no recourse except to quote the available literature, but to have this discussion with a physics professor who claims to know a quack when he sees one is just precious.

Dave